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Are school system holds back smarter students while promoting the dummies. Students should have to take aptitude test like in private schools. No chance in hell my daughter goes to public school.
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jrob18mvp said:
Are school system holds back smarter students while promoting the dummies. Students should have to take aptitude test like in private schools. No chance in hell my daughter goes to public school.

And then we become Japan?
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My favourite part of that post was the are/our switch.

What would happen if a student failed the aptitude test?
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I would think that schools would need to focus more on the less intelligent students. That way they could help those who clearly need it more, which would greatly benefit society. Although special programs should be put in place to help gifted students get as far as they can.
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Japan has an okay school system
It works, it teaches thought, and heck, I like it.
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Japan is actually one of the smartest and hardest working countries in the world. So I'd say that their school system is actually very successful. World educational rankings
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Nearly all the problems mentioned in this thread boil down to one thing: the myth that one size fits all.

A well-designed school system would have periodic comprehensive aptitude tests with high accuracy and high reliability. Students would be assigned to classes with students of similar aptitudes. This would allow each class's instructions to be tailored to the abilities and learning methods of the students therein. If this sounds a lot like Finland's system, that's because it is.

Would this be difficult to implement? Yes. It would put the final nail in the coffin of the notion that anyone can do anything, which some people will decry as unamerican. In trade, though, we would get the more useful notion that most people can be pretty good at something. Developing the tests is a nontrivial task as well. And this whole plan depends on having teachers that can actually teach, so there will be opposition from teachers' unions. None of these are insurmountable, though.
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joetom said:
I would think that schools would need to focus more on the less intelligent students. That way they could help those who clearly need it more, which would greatly benefit society. Although special programs should be put in place to help gifted students get as far as they can.


Right, that's what they've been doing. They've lowered the max amount of information teachers can teach and lowered the max standards they can hold a student's writing to. Now, someone who a long time ago maybe got a B or a C now gets an A so there are tons of all A students and you can guarantee having all As if you just attend every day and aren't a complete dufus, unfortunately they are very good at critical thinking or things easy to objectively measure like math compared to other countries so this approach is failing.
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What I mean, is that they should adapt teaching methods so they could help them more. Lowering standards to make it easier for them doesn't really help. They need to put more energy into actually helping them learn.
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The problem is, there will always be students who either can't or are unwilling to get up to the same level as there peers. There's only so much you can do to help those people. That's one of the main reasons I'm against NCLB.
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100% Graduation and acceptance to college rates are possible. Only four percent of those kids could read at grade level starting school at that institution. They are from a region and socioeconomic class (including race) which gives them among the highest risk in the nation to drop out, be involved in violent crime, end up in the criminal justice system, and be murdered. There's absolutely no reason we should discount a certain portion of our population because it seems inevitable that we cannot help them.
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I was once labeled a problem child, teachers said that I wouldn't be able to do very well, because I was too misbehaved. My parents took me out of the public system, and sent me to a private school that specialized in kids who had problems with ADD and other similar disadvantages. Skip ahead several years and I've been accepted into several university/college programs. The problem isn't the students, it's the teachers. More needs to be done to recognize alternative teaching methods for certain students. I was lucky, my parents could afford private school, not all kids are that lucky. The public system needs to adress these types of problems.
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I don't remember the details, but I was once considered for special classes. I do remember going to take special courses in reading and speaking, and they wanted to hold me back a grade at least once in elementary school. Do I have trouble reading? To this day. Do I have trouble pronouncing words? Yup. And I was socially awkward and emotionally stoic, so they said, "we should give up on bringing him up with the other students." My parents said no.

There are lots of kids out there who are like me or Joe, who are told "you are a problem child" for one reason or another. And that's that, they're assumed to be the type of student who can only be educated to a certain level. Yet, ironically, I started doing poorly in high school because I passed all my tests in every subject without studying, which means I didn't do homework. When my grades dropped (to a 3.0), it was because I wasn't being challenged. I got college credit on every one of my AP exams, I was accepted in the the Big Ten university of my choice, I did well above average on the ACTs without studying, I graduated with two college degrees, one of them a dual major with a specialization, in four and a half years. How many students out there like me are told, "You can't do this like normal people" and just give up?

Surely there are hundreds or thousands of students my age who could and would make me look like shit-smearing zoo animal if they had been given the opportunity to move forward without being labeled and fitting into the role they saw themselves in. Instead, some of these kids never get beyond the fourth grade reading level because "There's only so much you can do to help those people."
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It is difficult for an above average student to stay motivated in a system that accidentally mocks their intelligence.
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That's why I think there needs to be more focus on individual students. Help those who have trouble to keep up, and help those who are above average get further ahead.
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I think that certain classes should me mandatory. I mean, it's good to be well rounded, but there should also, be more options for them. Something that challenges their traditional thinking. I hardly ever see and philosophy classes and I know I never had one. I mean, if you had group circles where a specific subject was chosen by the students by a voting system, then the kids could discuss things important to them and learn different views outside of their friend groups who most likely have the same views as them.
Also, if more classes were held outside and they had more than just lunch inside a loud cafeteria and did more things outside during the middle of the day when classes can get monotonous, their minds could be ready for more learning. I also, think that learning meditation could be a good thing and I do not say this from a religous standpoint. It is proven that meditation can help calm the mind and help people with ADHD and anger issues and as we all know, a lot of people in highschool can feel pretty angry or bogged down. Meditation could help with violence in schools and help make the learning environment easier to stay in and help students not feel so weighed down with expectations.
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I teach at a private school, thank god.
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I went to a private school up through 7th grade, the same school my three siblings graduated high school from. But I went to a public high school, and I can say with confidence that I got a better education at my high school than I would have at this particular private school (not that it was terrible or anything). My point is that private doesn't always mean better.
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My economics teacher once explained this to us, I thought it was an interesting viewpoint. Basically what she said, is that private schools often aren't as good, because they have to put all of their effort into being profitable. This means that they won't get the best textbooks, or hire the best teachers, they will go for what is cheapest. It also means that if their income is limited, it will severely limit their teaching resources. She felt that the public option was best, because it's main focus was on education, and not profit.
I thought that was an interesting way of looking at it. Kind of similar to what could be said about things like policing, emergency response or healthcare.
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My school is a much better school than the public schools in the state. We have a minimum GPA of 3.5 and 98% of the sudents go on to college. All our teachers are top notch as well. Also we aren't held back by a school board. The problem with most public schools is that they teach you how to pass standardized tests and don't teach you the subject. If too few students pass the SOLs or whatever your state has, then the school loses it's accreditation and loses funding.
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Allow me to show the community this: Lockhart's Lament

It it only covers math, but it certainly strikes some hard points of what's wrong with our school system. The PDF is a little long, but the first half explains the major point of the essay. Please note this was created by Paul Lockhart, a mathematician.
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@ Satellite
It's also worth noting that she was regarding to the Canadian public school system. It's no secret that the American system is pretty messed up right now.
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Ah. By the way, "regering"? Hehe, that sounds funny. I'm not making fun of you. You know I like you.
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Bleh, weird typo, and it doesn't really support what I was just saying...
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Yeah, but that's ok. I don't teach English, so....
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The Forum > General Discussion > United States High School System
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